Translation

NPC: [00:00:03.23] [Intro clip, from the song Lacrima by Sofia Zadar and ricky horror].

robi: [00:00:23.18] Welcome to a new episode of LeneșX Radio. I'm robi, and today we have Raluca as our guest, who is a member of the Palestine Solidarity Cluj organization. We will be discussing the Elbit Out campaign, initiated by this organization, and, in general, their two years of work in solidarity with the Palestinian people against the genocide committed by the terrorist state of Israel.

NPC: [00:00:55.85] [leneșx intro collage]

robi: [00:01:19.76] Today we are talking to Raluca, who is a member of the Palestine Solidarity Cluj organization, and the theme of the episode is the Elbit Out campaign, which was started by the comrades from this organization together with other organizations. And, obviously, the broader subject is the genocide perpetrated against the Palestinian people by the terrorist state of Israel, which has been going on for two years now. And of course, this Elbit Out campaign is taking place against the backdrop of genocide and is part of a larger or more sustained mobilization that you have carried out together with Palestine Solidarity Cluj. In other words, you have basically been on the streets for two years, since this current chapter of the genocide began, so to speak. Could you tell us a little about what this mobilization has meant and how you have tried to show solidarity with the Palestinian people during this time?

raluca: [00:02:23.63] Hello, and first of all, thank you very much for the invitation and for this opportunity to tell you more about the campaign. The campaign came as a natural step after two years of organizing, during which we held several events, organized protests that as many people as possible joined, but we also organized other types of actions and events with the aim of popularizing this information, which otherwise might not reach people, and increasing solidarity with the Palestinian people. We held poetry evenings, film screenings, public discussions, and art fairs to raise donations for the refugee camp in Jenin. So there were several events. It was a constant movement beyond everything that PSCJ did in Cluj. There were also groups in solidarity with Palestine, which worked in the same direction in other cities across the country.

raluca: [00:03:26.81] We believe that we need to unite these efforts and we are gradually trying to create a mass movement beyond these individual initiatives and a movement that was more or less disorganized before. We have been working on the campaign since the PSCJ began. We had this idea of doing something against Elbit, but it took time to get better organized, come up with a strategy, and bring these partners together. There are several groups in the campaign, alongside us, from Romania and abroad, and it is precisely with this idea of creating a coalition, of gradually creating a mass movement that brings together as many people as possible who do not want Romania to be complicit in the genocide of the Palestinians.

raluca: [00:04:27.03] What is happening at the moment through the military collaborations that the Romanian state has with Israel and, more specifically, with this company, Elbit, the largest Israeli arms company. That is why we chose it as the image of the campaign, so to speak. But beyond the main demand to end military and commercial collaboration with Elbit, because it violates international law, we are asking the Romanian state, in general, to suspend arms exports and imports to and from Israel. We launched the campaign on October 5 in Bucharest with a public discussion and a demonstration. Since then, we have moved on to the next stage, a campaign to collect signatures in the streets. Basically, we want to show that as many people as possible, citizens of Romania, oppose this military collaboration with the Israeli state and want Romania to stop contributing to the crimes in the Gaza Strip and choose the right path, morally and legally. We will continue collecting signatures for a few more weeks. Then we plan to hold other types of events in the coming period, such as public discussions, with the aim of bringing together as many people and groups as possible and increasing pressure on the Romanian state.

robi: [00:06:10.39] And you've already started to describe the campaign a little. Maybe you could go into a little more detail. So, it's a campaign that you launched in early October, and maybe we could go into a little more detail about why you decided to focus on this company, Elbit Systems, and what kind of involvement Elbit has in Romania. And, more broadly, what is the stake in your campaign? Ours.

raluca: [00:06:38.98] Sure, and I like how you emphasized our campaign. Yes, so as I was saying, Elbit is the largest private contractor for the Israeli army and supplies about 85% of the drones used to bomb the Gaza Strip. Beyond that, it also supplies bombs, missiles, and weapons systems. And, in addition to everything the Israeli army has done in Gaza, in addition to all this destruction directly facilitated by Elbit, it has also supplied technology — and continues to do so — for the checkpoints in the West Bank and for the construction of the separation walls that exist throughout historic Palestine.

raluca: [00:07:30.01] And through this, we believe that Elbit, as we said, directly facilitates the occupation, and we demand that the production and export of weapons to Elbit cease and that military cooperation between Romania and Israel ceases. In addition to arms exports to Romania and other countries, Elbit has a very strong presence, especially in recent years. It supplies drones, including to Frontex, which are used to kill people in the Mediterranean. Yes, and as I said, in recent years this military trade has intensified greatly against the backdrop of the killing of Palestinians. In fact, their marketing strategy for exporting this technology is to describe it as battle-tested, quote unquote I would say. That is, tested on Palestinian civilians.

robi: [00:08:35.71] Yes, exactly. I think that's worth emphasizing here. That there are drones or drone components that are manufactured in Romania and are actually used in Gaza to kill civilians. To kill people in Palestine who are guilty of nothing more than being born in a region of the world that inconveniences other inhabitants of that area.

raluca: [00:09:02.71] Yes, exactly. In Romania, in these factories that I will tell you a little more about in a moment, they are not producing complete technologies, but components for drones that have been and continue to be (because the attacks have not stopped) used to bomb the Gaza Strip. Which, yes, makes Romania an accomplice to the genocide perpetrated by the Israeli state against the Palestinian people.

robi: [00:09:34.54] And beyond purely capitalist reasoning, such as Elbit investing money in Romania and creating jobs, we are talking about broader cooperation between the Romanian and Israeli states, which is not limited to an arms factory. Right? In the last two years, most Romanian politicians have either remained silent on the issue of genocide or have even supported Israel, without any criticism, remorse, doubt, or moral consideration. It's shocking, honestly. Especially since it comes from the people who are at the helm of the country, so to speak. So maybe you could tell us a little bit about the broader context of relations between the two states.

raluca: [00:10:18.37] Sure, it's a long-standing military collaboration. In fact, if we look strictly at the beginnings, let's say, after the founding of the Israeli state in 1948, with the Nakba, the Palestinian catastrophe, Romania was one of the first states to officially recognize Israel. In fact, even today, one day before the Nakba, on May 14, we celebrate Romania-Israel Friendship Day. It is something worth celebrating, according to Romanian politicians. And if we refer strictly to military cooperation, beyond the presence of Elbit subsidiary factories, there have also been joint military exercises over time, such as training sessions for Israeli pilots in the Carpathians. They were known as Blue Sky. These exercises involve all kinds of military acquisitions, strategic partnerships, technology transfer, and military expertise.

raluca: [00:11:27.49] I think that, in general, Romania's complicity in everything that is happening in Palestine is underestimated. In fact, a few days ago, we were already out on the streets in Cluj collecting signatures to support the campaign's demands. And many people are very surprised when they find out about these things. They didn't know that Romania was playing this role. They didn't know about the military collaboration between Romania and Israel and, as I said, it is somewhat underestimated. For example, before we officially launched the campaign, we worked all summer on a research report that can be found on the campaign website, elbit-out.info. It is an 80-page report that documents these military links in detail and where, by comparing various turnover figures, we found, for example, that Romania ranks first in Europe in terms of the share of Elbit subsidiaries' revenues. Elbit's subsidiaries in Romania have a turnover of approximately 30% of the European total. More precisely, 160 million euros.

raluca: [00:12:41.68] Then, a few years ago, around 2021, the Israeli ambassador to Bucharest boasted that Romania was Elbit's third largest center, after Israel and the US. There are some very profitable military contracts involved. Just this year, in 2025, Romania signed a contract worth two billion euros with Rafael, another Israeli arms company. It is the second largest military contract in Israel's history. Also in 2025, at the beginning of the year, it signed a contract with Elbit, this time for the supply of an anti-drone system. A contract worth $60 million. So there are very, very large sums involved in these military contracts.

raluca: [00:13:38.93] Then, since we're talking about sums of money, it might be worth mentioning that a new ANCEX report was released a few days ago, by the Export Control Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which shows that last year alone, in 2024, Romania exported arms to Israel worth €75 million euro. This is a very large number, but it is already higher than the figure for 2023, which was €59 million euro. So, even in very practical terms, if we look at these statistics and compare them, we can see an intensification of military relations and an increase in arms exports, which is not only visible in Romania alone, anyway. It is happening at a general level, including at the European Union level, if we also look at this arms race and the increasingly militarized climate.

robi: [00:14:43.51] Perhaps it is worth adding here that you mentioned this contract with Rafael. Rafael is one of the other large arms companies in Israel. There's Elbit, Rafael, and one or two others that have the majority of the market. And so, right around the time the news broke about that huge contract Romania signed with Rafael, through which it purchased some missiles, if I remember correctly. So, at the same time, Rafael released a promotional video for its products. The video is simply a clip taken from Gaza, in which a drone tracks and kills a person. We don't know if it's a civilian, we don't know if it's a Hamas fighter. But it could be a teacher or a journalist or someone else, because it was mainly civilians who were killed in Gaza. So it could be anyone. And it is absolutely morally outrageous for Romania to enter into a partnership in general, but especially this type of huge contract with such a company. From my point of view, Romania is completely compromising itself morally through this association.

raluca: [00:15:55.31] I totally agree with you, and this disgraces Romania, I would say, including internationally, from a legal point of view. Because there are treaties, agreements that we have signed, including the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, through which Romania has committed not to deliver weapons when there is even the slightest risk that they will be used to kill civilians. But in this case, it was not just a risk, it has already been proven. Numerous human rights organizations and authoritative international legislative bodies, such as the International Court, have confirmed that what is happening in Gaza is genocide and that all states have a duty to take all measures to prevent this. A new report by Francesca Albanese was released a few days ago, which again reiterates this obligation of states not to contribute to the atrocities in Gaza. It listed several countries that have done so, and Romania was obviously among them. So, among the states that have most facilitated the genocide in Gaza.

robi: [00:17:19.50] In other words, we are basically accomplices. The report says that we are accomplices to genocide.

raluca: [00:17:26.04] Yes, exactly. We are accomplices. And I want to say a little about Elbit's activity in Romania, which began in the 1990s, by the way. Although it was established, so to speak, in Israel in 1967, it intensified its activity in the 1990s. It has three subsidiaries in Romania, called A.E. Electronic S.A, Elnet International SRL, and Simultech SRL, which have four active factories in Bacău and Măgurele. And, more recently, one under development in Brașov, about which we don't know very much. Because, as you can imagine, this information is not very transparent. And the most active one is Elnet.

robi: [00:18:15.32] We are now recording this episode at the end of October 2025, in case you are listening to the episode later. For now, we are witnessing a so-called peace agreement that was recently established. But it is continuously being violated by Israel, by the Israeli army. Which continues to bomb Gaza daily and kill more Palestinians. Just as it bombs Lebanon, even though there has been a peace agreement with Lebanon for a year. And this is actually the tactic of the Netanyahu government, in particular. That it keeps making agreements and treaties, but then completely disregards them. And when the other side takes action, that's the pretext for resuming the bombing. It's a long-term tactic that has been going on for decades and is always, always the same tactic.

raluca: [00:19:11.91] And, in fact, if we want to see the real intention of the government... Now there is a distinction here between the government and the people. To what extent does the Israeli people support what the government is doing? But maybe we won't get into that here. In any case, Netanyahu has been prime minister for many years and has basically made many of the decisions. But if we really want to understand the government's intentions, we have to listen to ministers who have no reservations. And we keep hearing statements and even proposals for laws through which Israel would, in fact, like to annex the West Bank de facto or de jure in the near future. The West Bank, which in Romanian is called Cisiordania.

robi: [00:19:57.98] And, ultimately, this genocide in Gaza is actually the culmination of policies that the state of Israel has been practicing for decades. In fact, since its founding in 1948. And from which it has hardly deviated at all, only very occasionally. The tactic being to gradually eliminate the Palestinian people and seize more and more Palestinian territories. You have actually been to the West Bank and written about your experience there. It may be difficult for us, from a distance, to imagine what daily life is like for Palestinians, but perhaps you would like to talk a little about the broader context of daily life, especially in the West Bank. And what do you think the future holds for this region between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea?

raluca: [00:20:51.11] Of course, I can talk a little bit about that. I was there this summer. I spent a month and a half in the West Bank, during which time I traveled through several cities and talked to people. I don't know where to start, there's so much to say. Perhaps the first thing worth mentioning is that we don't really know how things are. I thought I knew. I had read a lot, seen pictures, watched documentaries, but it feels completely different. Being there and seeing these things on the ground. And hearing about them from people who live there every day, it's very overwhelming. And it gives you this feeling that you don't really know anything. The reality is much more terrifying than you thought. What's happening is much worse than you thought you knew.

raluca: [00:21:54.08] I visited several cities. As I said, I went from Bethlehem to Ramallah, Hebron, Nablus, Tulkarem, and people's experiences are quite similar. Everywhere you see problems of everyday life. The fact that people don't have water, for example, that there is a general water crisis in the West Bank, that all the water is directed to the settlements and the Palestinians have to collect rainwater. You see these cans on the roofs. In fact, I think the first Palestinian I talked to, a dear friend now, who showed me around there, said this. 'This is how you can tell a Palestinian house from a settler's house. You can't confuse them, because Palestinians have cans on top of their houses to collect water.'

raluca: [00:22:52.65] And there are these very concrete details that catch your eye, that you can't ignore, and that show how much the occupation permeates people's daily lives. You see with your own eyes the surveillance cameras, the walls, the gates, which have also intensified in the last two years. You can't just travel from one city to another if you have family there, say, and you want to visit. If you have a job, you have to wait for hours at the checkpoint, at these gates that once again surround the cities. And the fact that there is no free movement is a very difficult impediment, including psychologically. Many people said that, at some point, they no longer even want to try to travel elsewhere because it is super frustrating.

raluca: [00:24:03.66] And so there are the checkpoints. There is this water crisis. There is a general level of precariousness, because the Palestinian Authority has not paid people's salaries for a long time. There have been strikes about this. Then there are the very violent things that the Israeli army and the settlers do, which I also witnessed to some extent while I was there. For example, I saw a Palestinian man kneeling and blindfolded at a checkpoint. I heard (I didn't see them, but I heard) about children being killed in a nearby village. At one point, I was in Nablus talking to someone when suddenly I heard an explosion. A house nearby had been demolished for so-called suspicious activities. These are everyday occurrences, you know? Sometimes, in the evening, you could see bombs and rockets in the sky, heading towards Gaza. My friends from Europe who were there and I would immediately go outside to watch, and we were somehow very surprised by this situation. And the Palestinian comrades I was with would get alarms on their phones, but they didn't react like that, you know, in the moment, because they were surprised. It's something that happens because it becomes your everyday life, it becomes a habit, it becomes normal, unfortunately.

raluca: [00:25:50.56] There is a general climate of repression, including in the refugee camps. Even though theoretically there is this separation of areas in the West Bank, where the Palestinian Authority would have control in this area, for example, in practice this has never been respected and continues to be ignored; the Israeli army does what it wants. If they want to, they will go into a city, into the city center, and stop cars on the street, killing people just as they killed those children. So people have no defense. You can practically feel this general hopelessness.

raluca: [00:26:40.59] Then there are also administrative problems, so to speak, but again with a very material impact on people's daily lives. And I am referring here to the whole process of demolishing Palestinian homes and all the trouble they go through to try to prove that the houses are theirs. Palestinians' homes have been and continue to be demolished on a massive scale in recent years, on the grounds that they do not have building permits or that they have failed to prove that the house or land belongs to them. And this is a very difficult process. People are actually preparing for the moment when someone will come and tell them, "You can no longer live here." They gather all kinds of evidence to prove their ownership of that house.

raluca: [00:27:45.30] And it's difficult because, if we look at everything that has happened over time, you said that the genocide in Gaza is just the culmination of policies implemented over the years and other attacks. Some documents have even been lost. In fact, Israel has this law, called the Absentee Property Law, whereby, basically, after the Nakba, a census was taken. And if the Palestinians weren't in their homes at the time, when this person came to check who was living there, the house was declared ownerless. And obviously some of them weren't there because they had been displaced.

robi: [00:28:33.60] Pff.

raluca: [00:28:35.76] Yes, it doesn't make sense. And these building permits are very difficult to obtain, they are very expensive, so people have no choice but to build their houses anyway, even if they risk having them demolished later. And many of them are demolished, but people build them again, they don't give up.

raluca: [00:28:57.36] It's this Sumud. The Palestinian concept of resisting through these everyday acts that keep you going. This perseverance and determination. Which I also saw, because now, beyond these very difficult, very powerful things, there were also many positive things that give you hope. You know, many people who smiled and talked cheerfully about their daily lives. There were shared meals, people sitting in front of their houses telling stories. I don't know how to say it, a peaceful rhythm of life, despite everything that is happening. Life that continues, that goes on. That was the most powerful thing.

raluca: [00:29:54.34] Then there is also this resilience. For me, I think the image that stayed with me the most, that marked me the most, was the image of some boys from Hebron who sat in front of a checkpoint inside the city and asked me to take a picture of them. I was there, looking at that checkpoint. They came to have their picture taken while smiling and showing off their muscles. And it was a very powerful image, these children standing fearlessly in front of that checkpoint, which had an AI precision weapon and could basically kill them at any moment.

robi: [00:30:43.69] Yes. I can't even imagine what it's like to live like that constantly with this violence. From the surveillance and control of movement to the risk of losing your home or even your life at any moment, almost at random.

raluca: [00:30:58.57] Exactly.

robi: [00:30:59.53] And it's cool that you say that people have this resilience, somehow, on a daily basis. Not as something heroic or activist, but really a resilience of everyday life.

raluca: [00:31:11.23] That's why you see it all the time, including on the walls in cities. When I returned to Cluj, I had this slight feeling of alienation, you know, seeing how apolitical everything around me is. How capitalistic the streets are, how capitalist certain areas of the city are. Okay, I knew that before, but now it was much more visually striking, you know. If you go to the West Bank, you'll find graffiti on all the walls with messages, with images that refer to resistance, to hope, with revolutionary figures. These are very powerful things, and in some cities, for example, in Nazareth, which is a city in historic Palestine and now, theoretically, part of the Israeli state, this struggle is also being fought on an artistic level, so to speak. That is, Palestinian messages are constantly being erased from the walls, and people rewrite them. So it's also about this right to make your voice heard by all means and to make this struggle visible — very visible, that is, including visually, you know.

raluca: [00:32:38.05] I would also mention that I haven't talked about this yet, and it's something very important. How difficult it is for people to live alongside the settlers. This is very, very evident in Hebron, where in the city center the settlers are actually above, and there, in the square, there is a fence above through which they throw various things at the Palestinians who had shops there. And I say had because in the meantime many of them have been closed. This is because tourism, which many people relied on for their livelihood, has declined considerably in recent times. Unfortunately, people are literally desperate because they have no means of support. We were, in fact, the only foreigners, so to speak, and that is why many people were extremely welcoming. It was really overwhelming at times, you know, to see how hospitable people were and how happy they were that people from outside were coming to witness everything they were experiencing and then pass it on.

robi: [00:33:57.62] Thank you very much for sharing this information and these experiences with us. Before we finish, let's go back to the small things we can do here in Romania. You said you are collecting signatures as part of the Elbit Out campaign. Can you tell us how long the campaign will last and how people can collect signatures if they want to do so? And anything else that might be important to mention before we finish.

raluca: [00:34:26.42] Sure. So we have now started this round of collecting signatures, because we want to show that as many people in Romania as possible oppose what the state is doing in their name, basically. And without asking them whether they agree or not. So we are collecting signatures on the street. This was very important for us, because we could have launched an online petition. But the main goal is also to inform people, to be out on the streets, to talk to people who might not normally come to our events, who don't have access to this information, who have been subjected to Israeli propaganda. And we have seen all these things, in fact. So we wanted to be out on the streets so that we could talk to as many different people as possible.

raluca: [00:35:20.12] We already started a week ago in Cluj. We are doing this. Other cities will follow soon, after we get approval from city halls, which have made our work very difficult, unfortunately. We encourage everyone to get involved and create this mass movement for justice, which is greatly needed. The signature table is available on our website, and we encourage people to download it and sign it themselves. But also to encourage family members, friends, and acquaintances to sign the petition and, beyond that, to tell them about the campaign, about the Elbit factories in Romania, about Romania's military collaboration with Israel.

raluca: [00:36:14.74] Once you have downloaded the petition from the website and signed it, you can send it to us by post to PO Box 10, Post Office No. 15 in Cluj. All this information can be found on the website. If you would like to support the donation effort, we also have an active fundraiser. This is to cover the costs of all materials. All of these are welcome forms of support, and of course you can write to us anytime if you want to get involved and don't know how you can contribute. As I said, this is a movement for everyone, where everyone has a place and a role, and it's super important that we manage to come together and unite around this concept of solidarity.

raluca: [00:37:13.95] We will be on the streets for a few weeks, I think until the end of November. Then we'll see how things evolve and what events follow. We already have a few planned. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook for more details. And I'd like to talk a little bit about how this signature collection campaign is going. For me, it was one of the parts of the campaign that gave me the most hope, and I got involved because it's really encouraging to see how many people are against these things. And to talk to people and realize that, yes, people really want some very basic things. Like for no one to be killed and for there to be no more weapons.

raluca: [00:38:10.97] And we had very productive conversations, including with people who initially said they didn't know what to say, that they found the history of the conflict complicated. Or that Israel has the right to defend itself, or, anyway, all kinds of arguments. And it's very nice when people are willing to stop for a moment, and you can engage in a discussion and counter some of these arguments and propaganda. And to realize that, in fact, beyond all our differences, beyond all the things that divide us, we can really unite around such essential things, such as the fact that exporting weapons to Israel is not okay, from any point of view. It's not okay for so many people to be killed with these weapons.

raluca: [00:39:09.56] So I can say that the signature collection campaign is a success. In Cluj alone, we collected, I think, 1,000 signatures in the first two or three days. This shows how many people want to stop the production and export of weapons to Israel and want peace. Although political leaders continue to invest in highly profitable military contracts, essential areas such as health and education remain uncovered and are even hit by austerity measures. Ordinary people want peace.

robi: [00:39:53.81] And do you want to submit the signatures somewhere? When the campaign ends. With the main demand of the campaign.

raluca: [00:40:00.80] Yes, with the two demands. The termination of cooperation with Elbit and the suspension of arms exports and imports to Israel. And we will submit them to the relevant public institutions with responsibilities in this area. Mainly to ANCEX, the department responsible for granting military licenses. To show that, yes, as many people as possible, citizens of Romania, support the campaign's demands. They want to stop contributing in any way to the occupation and genocide of the Palestinians.

robi: [00:40:39.20] We will put links to all the information in the episode description, including the Elbit Out report, the campaign website, the fundraiser, and the signature table, if you want to collect signatures. Thank you very much, Raluca, once again for giving us your time and energy to record this together.

raluca: [00:40:59.06] Thank you once again.

robi: [00:41:01.19] And let's hope that little by little, together, we can push the world in the direction we want it to go.

raluca: [00:41:08.72] And show that we are not powerless. You know. Even though we live in a climate that increasingly tries to make us hopeless, so that we cannot fight for anything. In fact, people united have the power to change things, to come together and exert the collective pressure that is needed. But we need to organize ourselves seriously to do that. We need discipline, tactics. We need, as I said at the beginning, to build this mass movement. So, I will conclude by encouraging you once again to join the Elbit Out campaign and together say Stop arming Israel, Stop arming the occupation and genocide. And let's kick Elbit out of Romania!

NPC: [00:42:06.71] [lenesx outro collage]

robi: [00:42:14.54] That's all for today. If you hear the episode in time, maybe you can download the table and collect some signatures among your friends before the campaign ends. Otherwise, follow the Palestine Solidarity Cluj page for updates and information. The episode art was created by Grecu based on visuals used by the Elbit Out campaign. The music is the song Lacrima by Sofia Zadar and ricky horror. Until next time. Take care. Bye-bye!

NPC: [00:42:52.26] [song Lacrima, by Sofia Zadar and ricky horror]